Achieving Our Goals

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Like most of you right now, I've been staying at home during the COVID-19 pandemic. And what I found is that in my downtime, which there's a lot of lately, I'm reaching out to friends who have type one, checking up on them, making sure they're feeling okay, that they have food, insulin, and toilet paper. But also just to say hi, to commiserate in this experience, and just catch up, which I'm realizing I don't do nearly enough.

And that's kind of the point of the show, The 3s, to check in with the people in our lives who are affected by us having type one, to not make the disease so much "Me, me, me," but to realize that those close to us deal with it in some way, too. For a lot of people that's their parents, who spent their childhoods testing blood sugars, giving shots, driving to and from doctors' offices and pharmacies, calling insurance companies on their lunch breaks, and constantly worrying if their kids were going to be okay. But your significant other, your close friends, roommates, coworkers, all experience your literal highs and lows, too. They're there when you need fruit snacks, when you're frustrated and need to vent, and also just to act like you're normal, to remind you that you are more than just diabetes.

For Roz, she thought of her coach, Steve. Now it makes sense that when doing any sort of physical activity, you'd want the people around you to know that you have type one. You go low and need a break or, in the worst case, you pass out and they have to give you a shot of glucagon. But after years of training Roz, Steve has learned a lot more about diabetes than just when to pull out that big needle. From Beta Cell, this is The 3s.

Roz: So I'm Roz Sutch, and I'm a type one diabetic for 23 and a half years. And I'm here with my coach.

Steve: Hello, I'm Steve Coronelli. And I'm a type three diabetic. And I've been Roz's coach for about eight years now, I think.

Roz: Eight years, I think you're exaggerating? It's six, I think

Steve: Six?

Roz: Yeah.

Steve: Okay.

Roz: But it feels like a hundred.

Steve: Uh huh.

Roz: [laughs] That may be the problem. I thought it would be interesting to do to the 3s with you, Steve, because a lot of the other relationships were, like, husband, and/or other spouses, and good friends, and though we are friends, I thought our relationship as coach and athlete would be interesting for The 3s, so. I was thinking about the fact that the first day we trained together, I probably told you I was type one for a safety reason. And I was curious as to what you thought when I told you that.

Steve: Um, yeah, I'm sure that you did. I don't remember that, like, off the top of my head. But I bet you my thought going through my head was, "Oh, I know someone else who has type one. I can relate to this new client of mine that way." My sister is a type one diabetic, so that was probably what went through my head is like, "Oh, I know something about type one." And then I probably just kept asking you, like, if everything was all right, if you felt okay doing that, but I don't remember being extremely knowledgeable about the issues that a type one diabetic would have while working out. So I probably just kept checking in with you.

Roz: So I just want to clarify, not because I know my family I call my half siblings, my siblings, but it's your stepsister.

Steve: Right.

Roz: So you didn't grow up, everyday life with your sister?

Steve: Right, yeah, so it was my stepsister who I've known since I was four. But we did not grow up in the same household. And she was diagnosed when she was in high school, I was also - I was in eighth grade at the time. But again, in high school, we didn't grow up together. So like, I didn't see the everyday effects of it. So I didn't really know what it entailed.

Roz: Right, I was clarifying that because I think listeners would think, "Oh, he has a sisterwith type one, then he would know a whole lot."

Steve: Right.

Roz: I think what's interesting is, at least from what I've observed over time, is seeing what you've learned -

Steve: Definitely.

Roz: - from working together. So what did you know about type one, before we started training together?

Steve: Um, you know, I basically knew that it was a disease where a person's body could not make insulin. And I knew that that was solved by them giving themselves shots of insulin. And I think I pretty much thought that it was like, "Alright, you eat this amount of sugar, you take this insulin, and boom, you're good." I thought that it was relatively straightforward, and probably more of a mathematical equation than it actually is. I knew that it affected a lot of people. My stepmother was on the board of JDRF in Philadelphia, so I went to galas and things like that and met people that had it, and heard people's stories. So I knew that there were - there could be complications to it. But I don't think I really knew much about the day to day living with it.

Roz: Do you think working with me, has opened up your eyes to that? [laughs]

Steve: Yes. 100%. Just seeing how many things factor into what happens to someone's blood sugar, and realizing that it's not just simply "I consume this many carbohydrates? Let me take this much insulin." Yeah.

Roz: How do you adjust programming for me as a type one athlete?

Steve: Yeah, I was thinking a lot about this - this when I was listening to some of the other interviews done on the show, and when they were talking about, like, what adjustments does the type three have to make, and to be honest, it's - I don't really view you any differently than my other clients, like, my other clients all have something that they're dealing with that I have to modify for on a regular basis, right. So I think that's just a - a part of my job is going into a session and not knowing what's going to be thrown at me. As we've worked together over the years, my first thought is, I know that you have a pretty good grasp of, like, what's going on in your body. So most of the time, I will defer to what you want to do in a situation if your blood sugar's high or low. Secondly, I have a pretty decent understanding that, like, doing long, slow cardio is going to make you drop, and doing some heavy, intense lifting will probably make you go up. So, you know, how do I modify? Depends on the situation, but there's no set rule. And we kind of come up with it as a team, but I think that you know what's going on in your body more than I do. And I kind of follow your lead.

Roz: It's been interesting to see, though, the progression of your education as it's grown in understanding type one. And even sometimes you've made suggestions to me when I've been trying to think through a type one issue like, "Oh, you know, this - when I do this variable, and that variable, I'm seeing this result," and sometimes you've given me suggestions that are actually really valid and - and work and I find it funny, almost, that now it's like, I mean, in a lot of ways, you're part of my "care team," quote unquote, as - as my personal trainer and coach, but it's interesting to see from, you know, the early time, so when we started working together, to now, where you - you actually have, like, valid input on, like, a situation I might be dealing with. Especially if I'm, like, just seeing a pattern involved and thinking it through and talking it through.

Steve: Yeah. I also think, like, if I notice, like, you're acting differently out of the blue, sometimes I'll just be like, "What's your blood sugar at?"

Roz: Yeah, you do that. [laughs]

Steve: Yeah. And sometimes it correlates. So sometimes you'll be dropping or something, and we'll catch it. Sometimes it doesn't. But it's another thought that goes through my head, like, "Huh, why aren't you getting this lift today?" or "Why are you killing it today in the gym?" Like, let's check what the blood sugars at.

Roz: Yeah. I know, at least once in competition, I clearly had just forgotten that I was diabetic for a little while, because I was so focused on the competition. And you suggested, oh - Well, you had I think, either my watch or my phone to, where I was on - you were on my follow for Dexcom. And you were like, "Oh, let's just check your blood sugar real quick." And I was dropping. And so it was like, great that you're cognizant of it, because that would have been a problem in the competition if I would have went on the platform, like plummeting down, we were able to catch it before I got - it was a problem, and it didn't affect the lifts.

Steve: Yeah.

Roz: Do you ever wonder if I'm using type one as an excuse at the gym? Or to not go to the gym? Or, you know.

Steve: Um, I mean, I think in some ways, we all, like I said earlier, like, everyone has their shit that they're dealing with. And sometimes it gets so bad and so overwhelming, that we will use it as an excuse to like, not go to the gym, even though we probably could find a way to go. But that being said, no, it's not often that like you use it as an excuse to get out of the gym, because you actually - like the gym might be your favorite place in the world. [laughs]

Roz: Oh, it's definitely my favorite place in the world. [laughs]

Steve: So like, no, I think, you know, sometimes, if you're not getting a lift, and you're like, looking for answers as to why you're not getting this lift up today, you're like, "Oh, my blood sugar is all over the place. Goddamn diabetes." And I'm like, "That happens to people without diabetes, too."

Roz: Well I mean, not quite the same.

Steve: Not quite the same, but we all have our bad days -

Roz: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: - and our good days, and it's sometimes very difficult to pinpoint exactly why. But no, I don't think you use diabetes as an excuse to get out of anything fitness- or lifting-related because you love to do that.

Roz: Maybe sometimes cardio. [laughs]

Steve: Maybe cardio. [laughs] Yeah. When you're teetering on the low side.

Roz: Yeah, definitely. Might - er, to be safer than sorry, you know?

Steve: Right.

Roz: What do you think - what was the most surprising thing about type one that you've learned since we've been working together?

Steve: Really like, how no matter how hard you try, it is impossible to control to a T. Like there is no mathematical equation on how to control this thing, because every little thing in your life affects your blood sugar. And that is the major thing that I've learned over the years of working with you, is that it's not just carbohydrate intake, it's other macronutrient intake, fat being an easy example. It's sleep, it is the amount of lifting that you do - like last week, you did a two - a two a day. And that messed up your blood sugar like like crazy. So it's on that end of the spectrum, doing too much cardio will mess up your blood sugar, having too much stress in your life, not getting enough sleep, getting sick, things like that, like.

Roz: So just the sheer number of variables.

Steve: The sheer number of variables has really been eye opening. And no matter how hard you try to control something, it's okay to be like, there's too many variables to control this, but you gave it your best shot, so embrace the unknown.

Roz: Are you alluding to my control freak?

Steve: A little bit.

Roz: Do you think that working with me has changed the way that you would relate to your sister now? Or has it changed the way that you relate to your sister with regard to diabetes?

Steve: Um, I mean, I definitely understand, I think, anyone with type one diabetes a little bit better now and, like, the things that they go through, because, you know, I see you, you know, on average, probably three sessions a week, which can be up to, like, six hours a week, right? So like, I see these ups and downs, I see the stress that it creates in your life. So in terms of that, yeah, like I feel for anyone that has type one, like it is a pain in the ass. [laughs]

Roz: I'll cosign that. [laughs]

Steve: Yeah, like. So it's definitely made me more sympathetic to what she has to go through on a day to day basis. It's - it makes me wish that I could do more to help her. And in that same - right? Like, to help anyone with this disease.

Roz: So, you actually wore a Dexcom for a little while, about a year or so ago, when I went from the Dexcom, G5 to G6. I had extra sensors and a little bit of life left on my transmitter, so we slapped it on you.

Steve: Yep.

Roz: I was wondering if you would talk about that experience?

Steve: Yeah, honestly, I was like, I think the thing that blew me away the most was how little my blood sugar changed, compared to what I see in your tracking. Like, listen, I have a sweet tooth. So I was, like, I was eating sugar. I was, like, testing it out to see what would happen. And it would go up but it would, like, come right back down pretty quickly. Like there were not all of these huge spikes that lasted for a long time, or huge valleys that lasted for a long time. For the majority of things, like, sure, it would spike, but it would come right back to, you know, around - somewhere around 80, like, pretty quickly.

Roz: I was - actually, from observing you with it, I felt like you were disappointed. [laughs]

Steve: I was. I was disappointed because also, like, you know, I have training in nutrition and stuff, and like, one of the big things that they talk about is, like, white carbohydrates or quick carbohydrates, and like, they really spike your blood sugar levels. So you should stick with brown carbohydrates or slow acting carbohydrates so that you have more of a steady spike in your blood sugar levels, and I was like "Oh, that's bullshit." Well hey, mine went up, but they came right back down.

Roz: And by up, I saw your graph, it was like -

Steve: Yeah.

Roz: - maybe 10 points.

Steve: Yeah.

Roz: So like, I don't think you crested over 95, like.

Steve: Yeah, and I'm interested, like, I wonder how much my fitness level played into that, like, I'm pretty fit person.

Roz: Yeah, we talked about that when you did it, I remember.

Steve: Right, like, if someone wasn't as fit as me, would it be more towards your end with bigger peaks and valleys? But yeah, and I kept - and you gave me the pricker, too.

Roz: Right, because you had the G5, so it still had to be calibrated -

Steve: Right.

Roz: - so I gave you a machine and a lancet and all that stuff.

Steve: I was doing that over and over again, hoping to see something, and I was like.

Roz: That's what I found the most comical, because the reason why we wear the Dexcom - well, I mean, there's tons of reasons why we wear it, obviously, the arrows help so much - but it's to stop, and it reduces the number of fingerpricks, and you were fingerpricking like crazy.

Steve: I was fingerpricking like crazy, yeah.

Roz: You kept sending me screenshots of the - of the machine instead of your Dexcom. I was like, "stop fingerpricking!"

Steve: Yeah, but I kept wondering, like, maye this thing's broken or something. But yeah, so, and that also made me be like, "Wow, I really take this for granted." Like, my body does a really good job at handling all of the sugar that I can throw in it.

Roz: Good job, Steve's pancreas. [laughs]

Steve: Yeah, so -

Roz: Rub it in already, would you? [laughs]

Steve: [laughs] It was - it was really just, like, "That's it? That's all it's going up?" And that's all - I don't even think I went down at all. It never really dropped below. It never had a, like, I never made too much insulin that I went low.

Roz: And you tried doing cardio, I think, with it, too -

Steve: Uh huh.

Roz: - to see if you could, like -

Steve: Yeah.

Roz: - create anything. You were just so disappointed that your pancreas was working so well.

Steve: Yeah, I expected to see something crazier.

Roz: What did you feel about, like, wearing it? Because you wore it on your arm, similar to the way that I usually wear my sensor.

Steve: Right.

Roz: Was that like...?

Steve: Got caught on my shirt a million times. Every time I put a shirt on, ran - I remember running into the shower door. Like, just it getting caught. Yeah, that's another thing that, like, people without diabetes probably don't think about. But that hurts, like, when it gets caught on your shirt and, like, yanks on your skin. It's, like, just someone pinches you, but that's a pain in the ass to deal with every day.

Roz: It's funny, I actually realized because I wear my sites on my arm so often - I wear an Omnipod and a Dexcom - and I usually wear them either on, sometimes two on one arm or one on each, and when I cut corners, I, like, move my arm to the side, no matter what. And actually, right, today, I don't have any sites on my arms, which I'm really proud of, because I've been using my arms too much. And I found myself today when I was turning a corner, I still was cutting my arm away from it, just because I'm like, conditioned to make sure that I don't hit my arm.

Steve: So we can change your movement pattern -

Roz: Yeah, so you're very into movement patterns. [laughs]

Steve: - which I'm very into movement patterns. So maybe that's what's bothering your shoulder. That you're constantly dipping it away from there.

Roz: That'll be a different podcast. [laughs]

Steve: Yeah.

Roz: So you said you had some questions for me?

Steve: I do. Yeah. Um, so I was thinking, um, do you think that you would be a better power lifter if you didn't have type one diabetes?

Roz: Cool. That's a hard question. Wow, that is a hard question. Because I think in a lot of ways, because of how much I have to pay attention to my nutrition, and, you know, making sure that I work out, like, on a regular schedule, so that I have some less variables to deal with, probably makes me a better power lifter. But certainly, if I didn't have to deal with highs and lows and the ridiculous amount of planning that goes into making sure my blood sugar's in range, are in a good range for whichever activity that we're going to do that day, whether it be, you know, a lot of, like, high rep work, which kind of is more like cardio as far as blood sugar effects, or we're doing one rep maxes, which are my favorite days. [laughs] I don't know how to answer that. I really don't know the answer.

Steve: Because it plays so much into -

Roz: it's like, so -

Steve: your power lifting at this point.

Roz: - yeah I mean, I've been diabetic for 23 years, and I feel like it's just such a part of who I am at this point, in everything that I do and all the decisions I make every day. What is it, 180 decisions a diabetic makes a day, is - is the meme that went around? I don't know if it's true, I never counted. But yeah, I think it may have - it may make me a better power lifter, just because like I said, of the - kind of rigidity of my schedule and nutrition wise and working out. I don't think there's, like, a benefit to the insulin, as far as, like, making me stronger in any way. I know that some people think that about lifters. And I think it's almost asinine to think that, given the fact that, you know, all we're doing is replacing the normal insulin that these folks have already in their pancreas. So the idea that we would get an extra benefit from it is kind of silly, but.

Steve: Does it piss you off when someone asks you that?

Roz: A little bit. [laughs] Just a little bit.

Steve: Mm hmm.

Roz: But, I mean, as long as it's like, sometimes if it's - if it's asked in a way that's, like, purely curious, but if it's like accusatory, yeah, I'll get mad.

Steve: Right, right. So you had said, like, being a diabetic is so ingrained in how you power lift, so it may be making you better, it may be making you worse. It's so ingrained in your life right now, in, like, all decisions you make. It's ingrained in your friendships.

Roz: Yep.

Steve: It's ingrained in your marriage, right? So if you could go back to high school, and imagine diagnosis day never happened. You never got type one diabetes.

Roz: Okay.

Steve: Would you do that?

Roz: 100%.

Steve: You would?

Roz: Yeah.

Steve: Really?

Roz: I think when people say that they wouldn't give up diabetes, because of the people that they've met in their life as a result of it, are being really short sighted. And I say that having some of the very best friends that are type one that I love dearly, but I think that if I could have a life where my pancreas works, and I didn't have to use my brain to be my pancreas all day long, and I could just concentrate on what I'm doing at any given moment and not thinking about diabetes, I wouldn't - I would give it back in a second.

Steve: I want you to look at it from a different perspective, though.

Roz: Okay.

Steve: You, you are the type of diabetic that as soon as you see someone else who has diabetes, you, like, go up to them, and you strike up conversation with them. You want to tell everyone that you see about diabetes and educate them on it. You inspire young diabetics, and you help the parents of kids who are diabetics. You've helped me understand diabetes. You were written up in a newspaper article about powerlifting and diabetes. So you've had this effect on so many people, almost because you have diabetes.

Roz: Well, it's because it's been - it's become part of who I am. But I would - I would be I would 100% be a different person -

Steve: Yeah.

Roz: - if I didn't have it, but I would still give it back, even though it's so much a part of my identity, to never have to worry about diabetes again, I would give it back. Yeah.

Steve: Yeah.

Roz: Even at the expense of knowing I'd lose some of the, like, my best friends in my life.

Steve: Mm hmm.

Roz: I'd hope that I wouldn't lose my husband, but even when we met, you know, there was - he grew up with someone who's diabetic. So he was intrigued by me.

Steve: That's what struck up your conversation with him, right? [laughs]

Roz: Yeah, so. I don't think hard on the answer, I guess, if that was a problem of giving back diabetes, but no, I, yeah. When people say they wouldn't give it up, I always kind of, like, chuckle inside, because I think I would just give it up in a second.

Steve: Yeah.

Roz: Well also, I mean, there's so many things, like, that every day - well, not every day, but like, just worrying about insurance, and, you know, making sure things are covered, I'm very blessed that I have great insurance. And I have the means to have some of the best care. But, you know, things can change on a dime. And life can change. There was a point in high school, or actually it was in college, where I aged out of the state, you know, coverage, the free coverage provided by the state, but I wasn't yet full time working, where I didn't have insurance for a couple months. And I remember my sister having to help pay for my insulin. And there's people that live like that every day. So I know that I'm really blessed. And even though I'm blessed and have some of the best care, I still would give it back.

Steve: Yeah.

Roz: Just, yeah, I would. [laughs]

Steve: I get it. Yeah.

Roz: And then I could do all the cardio in the world. You'd be so proud of me.

Steve: And I'm sure that you would still find a way to touch people's lives, just because -

Roz: Yeah.

Steve: - that's the person that you are.

Roz: Aw, I appreciate that.

Steve: So that - that my final question was, if they found a cure for diabetes, you'd have no problem taking that?

Roz: Oh, yeah. 100%. Well, that would be, like, the best of the world, all the world, right? I'd still have all the wonderful ways that diabetes has affected me, but then I'd get rid of all the crappy ways it has affected me.

Steve: Right, right.

Roz: So. Although I don't believe that there's going to be cure in my lifetime, if I'm being honest.

Steve: Mm hmm.

Roz: I'm hopeful they might find a cure for, like, so that people, or some kind of vaccination so that people don't become diabetic? I don't know if vaccination is the right word; I'm an accountant, not a doctor, but. [laughs]

Steve: Yeah.

Roz: I think the technology is going to get us so close to what will feel like a cure.

Steve: Mm hmm.

Roz: I think we're so close now, even with a lot of the closed loop technology that's out there, that's hitting the market. And that's coming in the next couple years, or even less than a year. So I'm really encouraged by that technology that's out there and hopeful that it will just keep making our lives a little better and have less decisions that we have to make, so that maybe it's only 100 decisions a day instead of 180. But yeah, give me the cure. Sign me up. Where do I sign?

Steve: What would you tell other coaches who are in my position, don't have type one diabetes, but work with someone who does have type one?

Roz: I would encourage them to learn as much as they could about type one from their athlete. And because every diabetic is different, like, every person treats their diabetes differently through either different technology, even different insulins, so work with their athlete to understand how their body reacts to the different types of exercise, like we were talking about cardio versus anaerobic, like heavy lifting, and then, to do a lot of what you do, which is to not treat me any different. But while still being empathetic, which is, is a fine line to walk. And I feel like you do a really good job of that, like you hold me accountable. But then when you know that it's something that's really not in my control, or if I made a decision that was the wrong one, and now things are out of my control from there. You know, you're empathetic and understanding and we pivot when we need to, but at the same time, we try to, you know, keep to our plan and accomplish our goals. So I think any coach that's working, or about to work with a type one, or has a type one client now, should just continue to have that conversation with them and, and ask them what they think they need from their coach.

Steve: Yeah, and I'd give that recommendation to any coach, working with any, just, human.

Roz: Yeah.

Steve: Be a lifetime learner.

Roz: How many coaches work with nonhumans? [laughs]

Steve: I coach my dog sometimes. But yeah, just keep learning about your client and their needs, and their wants, and their goals, and all of that stuff that's important, whether someone has diabetes, or any - anything.

Roz: Cool. Well, I think that's about it.

Steve: Yeah, that was fun.

Roz: Yeah. Thanks, Steve.

Steve: Thank you.

Since they recorded this interview, COVID-19 happened. One of the many businesses that were forced to close were gyms. Luckily, Roz has some gym equipment at home, and she and Steve have virtual training sessions through video chat.

The 3s is a production of Beta Cell, and it's produced by me, Craig Stubing. A special thanks to Roz and Steve for sharing their story. Our website is Beta Cell Podcast.com. You're most likely listening to this while sheltering at home. So if you're looking for something to do, and you haven't written a review of Beta Cell on the Apple Podcast app yet, now's your chance. Just tap on Beta Cell and scroll down to ratings and reviews. It really helps other people find the podcast. If you want to buy me a coffee or join the Beta Cell fan club, there are links to those in the show notes. Thanks for supporting the podcast. I'm Craig, and this is The 3s.